Curse

MirkoTeran · Feb 12, 2008, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingKryton

without it people just use the same builds

You have to be joking, right?

Navaros · Feb 12, 2008, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Thread Necromancy FTL.

This thread is very obsolete, Ursan has already got nerfed since the creation of this thread. Not that it needed to be.

zwei2stein · Feb 12, 2008, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Thread Necromancy FTL.

This thread is very obsolete, Ursan has already got nerfed since the creation of this thread. Not that it needed to be.

Nerfed ... how? Ursanway is being run much more now than it was before "nerf" (which actually made it more idiotproof, thus more powerfull.)

Thread is more valid now since we actually saw what ursan did to game ... and it is not pretty.

Tyla · Feb 12, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingKryton

without it people just use the same builds.

Lolwut?
UB'ers = people using the same builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

All PvE skills are overpowered, thats kinda the point.

Then you have obviously NOT looked at other PvE skills except SY, TNTF and UB.

Lightbringer Signet? Sucks.
Radiation Field? Sucks.
Technobabble? Sucks.
Don't Trip? Sucks.
Alkar's Alchemical Aid? Sucks.
Black Power Mine? [skill]Dust TrAp[/skill]
Dwarven Stability? Limited use by far.
Ear Bite? [skill]sever artery[/skill]

Closer observation shows otherwise.

Numa Pompilius · Feb 12, 2008, 02:54 PM // 14:54

First of all for me the big problem with Ursan is how boring it is. As it requires no brain activity at all to play (beyond "target nearest, don't aggro the next mob until this one is dead, and don't rush away from the monks"), it is the most boring build I've ever played. I started my vanquishing with Ursan, but after a while I just couldn't take it, and equipped Eviscerate instead. It's no where near as powerful as Ursan, but it doesn't rot my brain either.
Ursan = pachinko.

Secondly, I think we're just going to see more and more of these fixed skillbars. We're already seeing them pop up everywhere (from Ursan via Beetle racing to the BMP missions), and I strongly suspect there will be nothing BUT fixed skillbars in GW2.

Then ANet will finally have made guildwars a Magic: The Gathering clone, with every player a single MTG card. And I'll be playing Counterstrike.

Brian Fellow · Feb 12, 2008, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Lolwut?
UB'ers = people using the same builds.

Then you have obviously NOT looked at other PvE skills except SY, TNTF and UB.

Lightbringer Signet? Sucks.
Radiation Field? Sucks.
Technobabble? Sucks.
Don't Trip? Sucks.
Alkar's Alchemical Aid? Sucks.
Black Power Mine? ....

Closer observation shows otherwise.

My entire alliance rarely use UB and I've vanquished every area w/o UB with my Rit (well I never melee except once using my AB item build). IMO, there's no majority of people using it everywhere.

Alkar's acid is very effective against Destroyers with the cracked armor and extra dmg.

I would say these are also overpowered:
You move like a dwarf
pain inverter
summon ebon vanguard assassin
finish him
great dwarf weapon

Red-Tide · Feb 12, 2008, 04:02 PM // 16:02

waa waaa, if you dont like it, don't use it. Stop whining.

For those saying it takes no skill, well then skip the skill and use your skills. Why waste your time QQing here? Play the damn game the way you like and let others do the same.

romeus petrus · Feb 12, 2008, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla salanari

Lolwut?
UB'ers = people using the same builds.

Then you have obviously NOT looked at other PvE skills except SY, TNTF and UB.

Lightbringer Signet? Sucks.
Radiation Field? Sucks.
Technobabble? Sucks.
Don't Trip? Sucks.
Alkar's Alchemical Aid? Sucks.
Black Power Mine? [skill]Dust TrAp[/skill]
Dwarven Stability? Limited use by far.
Ear Bite? [skill]sever artery[/skill]

Closer observation shows otherwise.

Like all skills it depends on who's using them and the situation they are used in. The main idea of having PvE only skills is because they are not balanced.

I suggest u look further into other PvE skills and the correct way of using them. Ursan is overpowered/not balanced very true. That's exactly what it's meant to be. We as a GW community need to move beyond complaining about how "overpowered" UB is and learn to live with it.

Isileth · Feb 12, 2008, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red-Tide

waa waaa, if you dont like it, don't use it. Stop whining.

For those saying it takes no skill, well then skip the skill and use your skills. Why waste your time QQing here? Play the damn game the way you like and let others do the same.

Well in that case im going to start a petition for a skill that deals 200dmg to all enemies in radar range 5e 1c 5r.

Because you wouldnt have to use it. The fact that its overpowered doesnt matter right? Because you wouldnt use it so it wouldnt effect you or the game in anyway right?

Or just maybe....it would.

Balance in games is important. You cant just say, well dont use it if you think its to powerful. Dont think that it doesnt effect others.

zwei2stein · Feb 12, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeus petrus

... The main idea of having PvE only skills is because they are not balanced. ...

Problem is that that idea sucks. PvE has to be ballanced, it might not need carefull PvP-worthy ballancing but it still cant have such ridiculous stuff running around.

Main idea of PvE only skills was that people would stop QQ at forums about skill ballances and PvE and free Izzy from having to think about side effects of PvP ballances. It failed as this and tons of related threads show.

One of GWs strengths was that PvE got reballanced thanks to sideeffects of PvP ballacning and "best builds" changed after could of weeks. Compared to todays "never".

romeus petrus · Feb 12, 2008, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Problem is that that idea sucks. PvE has to be ballanced, it might not need carefull PvP-worthy ballancing but it still cant have such ridiculous stuff running around.

That's clearly a valid point, and I agree that PvE should have some degree of balance that does not make it rediculously easy for everyone and their dog to run thru any HM area.

Then the issue becomes would u also balance monsters and AI. You do come across monsters 10 levels higher than u, and go into areas where the spawns rediculously outnumber you. Balancing that even if not pvp style balancing would make the game rediculous.

Another example is Thorn Wolves in Urgoz HM which strike for 300+ dmg per hit. An R10 Norn Ursan cannot outdamage that..

PvE cannot be "balanced" simply coz the AI will never behave like humans do, thats why we need much higher mob levels and number to make the game challenging. Thus, balance is lost.

Isileth · Feb 12, 2008, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Romeus, the AI needs those extra levels and numbers because they are AI.

Or are you suggesting it would be fun to face a team at the same level as you but with AI controlling?

They quite obviousely cant perform to the same standard as a real player. They need advantages simply because the player will always be more skillful.

So the balance comes not in Player team v AI team.
But in the requirement of skill to beat the AI team.

Now when you have overpowered skills it kills that balance, suddenly it becomes far to easy.

Horseman Of War · Feb 12, 2008, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Id like to know, aside from DoA Gemstone prices, how this is unbalancing anything?

It shouldnt be a pride issue for people.... especially since most of these people will just go out and farm with a youtube build, and how is that any different? At least for Ursan, you need (noobs listen) to level up your ursan. Its not just a free ride once you buy gw:en... it takes HOURS and HOURS to level up your ursan. So yes if you want 'skill over time played', then skip grinding varajar and go 55 your heart out boy.

There are always going to be things in this game that allow you to do things easily. At least ursan gets people Together and actually Accomplishing things they want to do, rather than playing the whole game h/h or solo farming.

If you dont like Ursan, theres nothing forcing you to use it.

Also why do people call it ;'ursanway' .... the skill is called Ursan Blessing, not Ursan-Will-Avenge-You...

Isileth · Feb 12, 2008, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Of War

Id like to know, aside from DoA Gemstone prices, how this is unbalancing anything?

It effects lots of things.

Be it getting a group.
Prices.

You also need to look at the same reasons people dont want bots, gold sellers, cheaters etc.

How does duping effect you? You dont need to do it, you dont need the money so its all fine right?
How about someone who runs a bot? It doesnt effect you again right? You dont have to do it, if it gives him an advantage it doesnt matter.

Quite obviousely these things do effect others. So does having unbalanced gameplay. It cant be argued away with "Well you dont have to use it". Because it has an effect if they use it or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Of War

It shouldnt be a pride issue for people.... especially since most of these people will just go out and farm with a youtube build, and how is that any different? At least for Ursan, you need (noobs listen) to level up your ursan. Its not just a free ride once you buy gw:en... it takes HOURS and HOURS to level up your ursan. So yes if you want 'skill over time played', then skip grinding varajar and go 55 your heart out boy.

That makes it even worse tbh. Not only is it overpowered, but its power is linked to grind!
It takes skill>time and kicks it a bunch of times till you get time>skill gameplay.
Now not only are you rewarding time spent with more options, but you are rewarding it with more power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Of War

There are always going to be things in this game that allow you to do things easily. At least ursan gets people Together and actually Accomplishing things they want to do, rather than playing the whole game h/h or solo farming.

You say that as if going h/h isnt the right way to go about things....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Of War

If you dont like Ursan, theres nothing forcing you to use it.

It isnt that simple, in a single player game that argument works (Although its still better to have it balanced, the player shouldnt have to make the game balanced). But GW isnt a single player game, other people do have an effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horseman Of War

Also why do people call it ;'ursanway' .... the skill is called Ursan Blessing, not Ursan-Will-Avenge-You...

Same for all the xways. It just took off from IWAY.

KingKryton · Feb 12, 2008, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr None

Then may be you should learn to play?
I am a warrior and me, my friend and 6 heroes completed UW without Ursan or Obsidian crap

um it has nothing to do with me learning to play. When i goto join a group in places like doa theyll ask "ping build" if its anything but obsidian tank then its a instant kick.

i suppose you can do doa HM with H/H too

also if you dont use ursan then wtf is the problem? its not hurting you in anyway?

im guessing your just another elitist who has hundred of ectos stored away and knows that with more people farming elite areas your precious supply will become worthless.

romeus petrus · Feb 12, 2008, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Romeus, the AI needs those extra levels and numbers because they are AI.

Or are you suggesting it would be fun to face a team at the same level as you but with AI controlling?

No, I stated very clearly (to most) that giving the AI the same level as players would make the game rediculous (rediculous was the exact word I used). The AI needs to be many levels higher than human players to make the game challenging. And when u have a group of level 20 players fighting a mob of level 28-30, it is kinda hard to argue that "balance" exists in PvE..

Face it there is no balance in PvE, there never was, and there never will be.

"...there is no spoon".

Eon Ryax · Feb 12, 2008, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Just my two cents - I'm not personally against UB, but I don't use it. Call me a purist, whatever - I've had the same char for two years, and I love making new builds. Anywho, tangent aside, the only times UB has really irritated me has been in ToA, with people shouting for "r12 only ursanway", and today in Central Transfer Chamber, where someone was advertising for a two-man Glint's run, ursan only, and then had the gall to call it "proway". I'm sorry, but the word pro connotates professional to me, someone who is skilled, has a wealth of experience, and some intelligence. Not a button-masher who happens to be able to deal assloads of damage because of one skill.

That said, I may just be uppity because my toon is a ranger, and it took a hell of a lot of work (even with h/h) to get to even halfway where most of the other classes are.

Then again, maybe I'm doing it wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

DivineEnvoy · Feb 12, 2008, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

It effects lots of things.

Be it getting a group.

I doubt the problem of getting into a group has never existed until the release of Ursan Blessing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Prices.

After two years or so at this point, where people have invented thousands of ways to farm nearly anything, you are telling me as if Ursan is the only affection to the prices of items.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

You also need to look at the same reasons people dont want bots, gold sellers, cheaters etc.

Last time I checked, bots, gold sellers, cheaters are against EULA. And apparantly, Ursan isn't against EULA. So how are these reasons relevant?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

How does duping effect you? You dont need to do it, you dont need the money so its all fine right?

Duping is against the EULA, and Ursan is not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

How about someone who runs a bot? It doesnt effect you again right? You dont have to do it, if it gives him an advantage it doesnt matter.

Bots are against EULA, and Ursan is not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Quite obviousely these things do effect others. So does having unbalanced gameplay. It cant be argued away with "Well you dont have to use it". Because it has an effect if they use it or not.

While we are on the topic, unbalanced gameplay, would it be possible for you to explain to me why the monsters in Hard Mode have infinite amount of energy, which made most Inspiration spells totally worthless? Perhaps you can also tell me why I can't get into a group in DoA as a Fast Cast Nuker with a level 8 lightbringer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

That makes it even worse tbh. Not only is it overpowered, but its power is linked to grind!
It takes skill>time and kicks it a bunch of times till you get time>skill gameplay.
Now not only are you rewarding time spent with more options, but you are rewarding it with more power.

In this logic, if I'm not interpreting it falsely, you are basically saying how additional options should not have been rewarded from the time spent, which would grant players more power. Well in this sense, if we are going to nerf Ursan, shouldn't we nerf all the available runs throughout the game as well, since they are just more options granted from spending time into farming, as well as the fact that the consumers have power over the area simply because they have a runner?

Perhaps we shouldn't even let human players party together; like you said, the game is supposed to skill over time, so if a player decides to make a friend or so, and maybe he would ask this friend to help out on a mission or two, that would be rewards granted over the time spent into socializing with people, which will allow this inexperienced player to have power over these missions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

It isnt that simple, in a single player game that argument works (Although its still better to have it balanced, the player shouldnt have to make the game balanced). But GW isnt a single player game, other people do have an effect.

It really depends what you mean by the game being balanced. If it is what Anet's standards of being balanced is, then it will happen, but if it is just your opinion to what balanced should be, it really doesn't give you the right to dictate what other players should do.

kazjun · Feb 13, 2008, 12:31 AM // 00:31

I don't care about whether ursan is in or not. My main's a warrior and dslash combined with other skills, especially if you use certain other pve skills, makes ursan look like a hamstorm. And you have full use of 8 skill slots.

But I must also say that saying ursan negatively affects getting a group is wrong. I'd bet that more people have been able to pug since the introduction of ursan than they were before. Whole classes would have been able to pug where they wouldn't have even been able to get a look in than before. ESPECIALLY the elite areas where classes like mesmers are unlikely to ever go unless it's a guild group or solo. At least that's what I've heard from guildies. My five main pve chars are W, R, N, and ele's so I haven't really run into any discrimination. But I don't really pug much, prefering to either go with guildies or H/H.

Also about it been brain numbing and easy. I agree, but a lot of the asked for cookie cutter builds are also brain numbing and easy. I don't think anyone can say SF is overly complex. Or that B/P really involves more than mashing barrage and keeping splinter and spirits up and hitting an interrupt or two. And frankly pugging, and especially in the elite areas, is cookie cutter or you get insta kicked. You try doing the deep for example, if you don't fit say 134134134222, you'll be out quicker than you can type hi.

As for it affecting prices, apart from DOA gems I can't really see how this would affect prices more than the other million farming builds around. I gotta agree with DivineEnvoy on this, there's already too many efficient farming builds around to blame ursan for this.

Bryant Again · Feb 13, 2008, 12:52 AM // 00:52

DivineEnvoy, you've taken everything he's said out of context and missed his point. Example: He's comparing bots/gold sellers to Ursan Blessing because neither bots or gold sellers impact your gameplay.

I doubt the problem of getting into a group has never existed until the release of Ursan Blessing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

I doubt the problem of getting into a group has never existed until the release of Ursan Blessing.

Again, that is not his point. He's just providing yet another example at how Ursan Blessing affects peoples' gameplay.

I could comment on more, but I'd essentially be repeating what Isileth posted. Please reread his post.